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forrestjones2010
THERE?
cagedmind0531
yup
what's up
forrestjones2010
reading what you emailed...i have a pact that would go nicely between the 3
graven syrka and adahn
i call it "May we together"
cagedmind0531
That isn't near all I wrote
Let me paste the latest to the final draft page
forrestjones2010
i would like to add the pact
cool?
cagedmind0531
read what I got first, one sec
forrestjones2010
k
cagedmind0531
posted
forrestjones2010
k...just finished email
cagedmind0531
ok there is quite a bit more, I wrote like 4-5 pages
forrestjones2010
wowsers
where?
cagedmind0531
it's at the bottom of the final draft page
forrestjones2010
k
reading now
cagedmind0531
k
forrestjones2010
i was going to mention her ether was cobalt
u beat me to it
cagedmind0531

How goes it?
forrestjones2010
i am speechless...
cagedmind0531
So that's good then right? lol
forrestjones2010
yes ofcourse
cagedmind0531
ok groovy
forrestjones2010
it needs attention here and there but the spirit of it is immaculate
cagedmind0531
Ok well do you want to go over some editing points right fast then?
forrestjones2010
not sure
that is the end of ch 6 right
cagedmind0531
um...it could be or her funeral could be
forrestjones2010
how many words is it so far
cagedmind0531
It's 7 pages so it's a bit short for a chapter
forrestjones2010
k
cagedmind0531
So I figure next chapter Graven gets pissed and leaves [possibly] because Gaia left him, with his child no less
not sure
forrestjones2010
i dont think i want to edit tonight
cagedmind0531
k np
forrestjones2010
plotting sounds more fun
what do you want to do
cagedmind0531
let's discuss this chapter a bit then move on to the next
forrestjones2010
k
cagedmind0531
ok so we killed Gaia...does Siren do something?
We are going to have issues at this point because we need to decide how fast we advance time here
I was thinking possibly that we leave Graven for a while after the funeral. Discuss Siren a bit, give her some things she tries to do
Then at the end of whatever is written about her we zone in on her trying to kill graven again
forrestjones2010
thinking
how old is kaylx?
cagedmind0531
baby, not a year old I don't think
I need to insert some scenes where the baby is being cared for but it is rather tedious
forrestjones2010
siren is going to kidnap her
graven will never know her
cagedmind0531
good idea, why does she kidnap her?
forrestjones2010
many reasons
tension
she is powerful
much more so than Gaia
feiny wants the dna
peyton wants a protegie
siren want o be a mommy
cagedmind0531
Ok well we need to pick one of them that is the most believable.
forrestjones2010
Siren needs a new weapon
leave it open for now
we can decide later
snatch the nibbler
Graven doesnt even suspect it
cagedmind0531
What did you think about the poem btw? is it ok or could it stand to be changed?
forrestjones2010
the curse doesnt turn her human
it rocked
cagedmind0531
ok good
forrestjones2010
better than i could have done myself
cagedmind0531
I doubt that but thanks much.
It took me a while to decide on a rhyme scheme
forrestjones2010
Kaylx is the last Etherian right?
cagedmind0531
Yes she is
forrestjones2010
sweet
rare hoe
Peyton will be pleased
Siren will be redeemed
cagedmind0531
Would it be odd for Graven to just not notice his child is gone because Gaia is dead. Like Veyn was watching her and tries to tell graven what ha
forrestjones2010
this will be her first assignment she doesnt botch in a while
cagedmind0531
happened but he doesn't hear it
There?
forrestjones2010
thinking
yeah thats odd
I want him to see siren tke her
and him be helpless to do anything
I want it to take place at the same place gaia died
cagedmind0531
ok...we could actually kill off Graven for a few chapters. Graven disappears after his wife dies and child is abducted
forrestjones2010
maybe
cagedmind0531
Something big has to happen with Graven after this because he is going to be decimated
forrestjones2010
I want someone to be in Corals old cell
put Graven there because he goes crazy
cagedmind0531
Maybe he almost kills Veyn for letting his child get kidnapped
forrestjones2010
put him there in holding under survellence
i need him to discover Corals writings on the walls of her cage
cagedmind0531
Does it occur to you by the way that Graven is kind of two dimensional so far
forrestjones2010
in a peculiar way
cagedmind0531
So far Graven is just 'the good guy'
forrestjones2010
what do you mean 2D?
cagedmind0531
He's like two dimensional. Not developed. All his decisions he has had to make have been obvious
forrestjones2010
have him kill Coral and then the "community locks him in her cell
karmic retribution
cagedmind0531
Killing her would definitely be big. Maybe too big.
forrestjones2010
its her fault Gaia is dead
she is the reason gaia is dead and iboga was born
cagedmind0531
That's not bad. But I don't think the community would approach Graven
Think about it
He killed Iboga
Basically
They were petrified of Iboga
I think Graven would leave on his own before they would imprison him
forrestjones2010
thinking
cagedmind0531
By the way Graven in the future post dates siren
forrestjones2010
what does that mean
cagedmind0531
It means Graven in the future is at a later date then Siren. He is after the scalping, she is before.
She is at the height of tech he is at the fall of it
forrestjones2010
k
cagedmind0531
We could so easily make this into more then 1 book
I've been thinking about it
forrestjones2010
i am with you on that
cagedmind0531
I say we just write it out and if it ends at 320 pages it ends, if not we keep going but start looking for publsihers
publishers*
forrestjones2010
agreed
cagedmind0531
Ok so we've built Graven up as a hero, now we tear him down
forrestjones2010
burn baby burn
kill your darlings
kill em all
cagedmind0531
One potential problem is the injections I have been giving future Graven. What is he trying to change if not Gaia's death
forrestjones2010
maybe he is not as 2d as he appears
introduce another agenda with the injections
cagedmind0531
What if he is almost dead from scar tissue. But he is undoing the dmg piece by piece by using the injections to make the injuries never have happened
forrestjones2010
we could link Coral's cage to the future
what if the ethereal writings on the cell wall created the storm crow
and when there pattern is ciphered
the universe along with its secrets are decoded
power to whoever dicovers it
just brainstorming
cagedmind0531
figured
forrestjones2010
any of that sound good?
cagedmind0531
Not fond of Graven being imprisoned. As far as what she wrote in her caged madness I don't know. This is my first time to think of her beyond the terms of what is happening now
forrestjones2010
k
so far I like the kidnapping at the death spot by siren...are you on board with that?
cagedmind0531
I am on board with it but I want a good reason before we commit to it.
Siren is a mercenary. She's not going to do something just to do it.
There has to be a specific reason.
Plus kidnapping a kid is a hell of alot more then picking off parts throughout history
We would need a scene with Peyton or something demanding she get paid more
There?
forrestjones2010
yes
cagedmind0531
I really think we need the purpose now before later because it needs to be brought up repeatedly throughout the book. If the child is going to grow up it's going to be a recurring character
forrestjones2010
thinking
cagedmind0531
With me on that point though?
forrestjones2010
not really
i think it can be defined tommorow
brb
cagedmind0531
k
forrestjones2010
tish needs some help
cagedmind0531
np
I've got it! They kidnap her believing her DNA is special...but it's not! It's her beliefs that will make her powerful and thus the child is useless and they are going to dispose of her
But Siren stops them
And takes the baby
forrestjones2010
i need some process time on this one
her ether is more powerful than cobalt
cagedmind0531
I don't want her DNA to be special. IMO belief should make her special. Belief dictating reality is a good theme
Plus this gives good reason as to what would happen with the baby. Would AI raise it otherwise?
forrestjones2010
what if her ether is not ether at all what if it is Chrome
what if she is the first of the Chrome
Book 2
cagedmind0531
We differ on this one pretty big because I don't want her to be much larger then life. Her mother was a martyr with some powers true, but maybe she will manifest these later in life and they give up on her because it's not in her DNA
Or maybe the change in her is not something DNA or eyes or tests can show
forrestjones2010
if she is not special then why kidnap her at all
that is like writing just to write
with no purpose
cagedmind0531
Because they thought her DNA would give them some insight into Gaia. A way to exploit it. What if her DNA is needed in order for the nanoprobes to enter the tree
maybe not her dna but her ether specifically, otherwise why not take a fingernail or a piece of hair
forrestjones2010
thats interesting
cagedmind0531
So maybe her DNA is only special at first because it allows them to enter the Gaia tree but...
later on in her life she realizes she has powers
But they discard the child after they have taken her blood
forrestjones2010
how about they take the fetus
cagedmind0531
Siren rescues the child and tries to cut ties with Peyton
forrestjones2010
embryo
cagedmind0531
Well the child is already born
forrestjones2010
the second unborn child
she is pregnant
cagedmind0531
ah that's right
Maybe they don't know that though. Hell even Graven didn't know
forrestjones2010
better yet the dead body
talk about piss off a husband
cagedmind0531
Maybe they take the dead body and fetus and find out that it's not enough
That it has to be live ether
forrestjones2010
then they take kalyx
cagedmind0531
aye
forrestjones2010
then kill her
then kill graven
cagedmind0531
You don't want the baby to grow up?
forrestjones2010
then kill all the goats in the city
cagedmind0531
rofl all the trench goats
forrestjones2010
trench goats indeed
she can live
i just dont want to happy of an ending
cagedmind0531
So I think we're together on this so far. Siren comes. Takes the body of his dead wife and fetus. Do tests. It'
s not enough
They decide to kidnap Kalyx who has become all Graven lives for
forrestjones2010
k
yes
cagedmind0531
We make it clear that they intend to enter the Gaiasphere
We don't know why yet
forrestjones2010
k
cagedmind0531
awe man I just had a thought
Totally off the wall and random. Not even sure it would work.
forrestjones2010
listening
cagedmind0531
wait nvm I don't like it
forgot one detail
forrestjones2010
tease
cagedmind0531
moving on
lol
forrestjones2010
tell me
cagedmind0531
was gonna say what if Kalyx is Siren
forrestjones2010
mind flip
cagedmind0531
yeah lol it won't work
forrestjones2010
right
cagedmind0531
random thought
forrestjones2010
sounds like something i would threw in the mix
cagedmind0531
Ok so we are halfway through the book now we need to start making clear the motivations of the future people
Why they are doing what they are doing
forrestjones2010
control
the past is purpose
the future is control
the breaking of both of these curses is love
cagedmind0531
By the way as far as the ending. What if it's a bad ending but then they find a Gaia seed.
So it's a bad ending with hope
forrestjones2010
ok
it will come as it comes
cagedmind0531
ok so anyway
This chapter ends with Gaia's funeral.
Graven is in mourning at the start of the next chapter. He is irate with Coral.
forrestjones2010
k
cagedmind0531
what now?
forrestjones2010
funeral/bodysnatch
cagedmind0531
Does Graven find out she stole the body?
forrestjones2010
hmmmmm
no
cagedmind0531
k
Then you or I will write a siren scene discussing the experimentation on the cells
forrestjones2010
either way
cagedmind0531
You never did post your entire scene from before btw
forrestjones2010
they fail right?
the siren scene
?
cagedmind0531
Yes they fail trying to use DNA to enter the Gaiasphere, and it is airtight, water tight, can't be burned or scraped
Yeah the scene with the won tons
forrestjones2010
you lost me
won tons
?
cagedmind0531
Yeah that introduces Peyton etc
You wrote it...it's several pages...
forrestjones2010
that is a complete scene
cagedmind0531
You didn't give me all of it
forrestjones2010
i had to cut it off
cagedmind0531
oh
forrestjones2010
it ran to long
cagedmind0531
Did it? I think it needs to keep going to make any sense at all
You need to establish why you are telling them all of this. What exactly is Peyton to Siren
forrestjones2010
oh...gotcha
i will go back
almost forgot about that
Coral took over
cagedmind0531
From here on out Siren will be more and more predominant
We need her grounded. With a real hierchy
hierarchy*
forrestjones2010
she gotz plenty a demz
cagedmind0531
Don't make the reader guess that it's her boss. Flat out say it.
That right there gives emotion to the scene
If your unscrupulous boss had you in a chair and you couldn't move, and you fucked up
How would you feel
I'd feel pretty damn scared even if he was being nice to me, especially if he was being nice to me
forrestjones2010
hmmm
so much for finess
cagedmind0531
I've just given it some more thought
forrestjones2010
hi boss stop slapping me in the face with that monster of a dildo please
cagedmind0531
rofl
forrestjones2010
i guess you have
why the change of heart
why the direct approach
quihote?
cagedmind0531
It doesn't need alot of change honestly. A few sentences can make the change apparent
I just don't want to write them, I'd rather you did so it fits better.
When I start changing things sometimes it loses what you gave it
The ambience of the scene cannot be beat
You can tell you've been where you were describing
forrestjones2010
i see
cagedmind0531
If you disagree let me know and we can discuss it.
forrestjones2010
i dont want to get bogged down in edit at the moment
cagedmind0531
Ok no problem
The segment goes in later anyway
forrestjones2010
how much later
cagedmind0531
Either chapter 7 or 8 depending on if 7 is a Siren centered chapter which I think it should be
Are you wanting to phase the Siren stuff in more gradually or start doing it now?
forrestjones2010
at first i wanted to phase it in in pieces...small chunks...but you kept pushing it back and rewriting it
so now i dont know
i guess at one time
cagedmind0531
Sorry I didn't mean to throw you off
forrestjones2010
no its cool i dont really care where it goes
i am flexible
i think its paradoxical that you dont want the protagonist caged and your screen name is "cagedmind"
cagedmind0531
rofl
My mind is caged my body is free!
It's a conundrum
forrestjones2010
if you say so
sondorman
condorman
cagedmind0531
lol
ok so let's map on chapter...7 is it?
forrestjones2010
7...i am so excited
cagedmind0531
Dude I can't believe we are almost halfway there!
forrestjones2010
it opens with Peyton dissecting gaia assisted by strassman and feiny
i know right
Siren watchesclening her guns
cagedmind0531
Oh so we are having the abduction take place at the end of chapter 6?
forrestjones2010
funeral
end of 6
cagedmind0531
Not the abduction the body snatching I meant
forrestjones2010
right
cagedmind0531
k
forrestjones2010
idea
cagedmind0531
After much frustration they learn that DNA is not enough and I would go so far as to honestly having them breaking into the facility where the Gaiasphere is in the modern world to test it.
That could be Siren's mission
Go ahead
forrestjones2010
ch 7 could open with the dissection without an explaination of an abuction the reader would assume siren did it
or we could use dialouge areound the table to say
cagedmind0531
Good idea.
forrestjones2010
good job on getting them here
something to that effect
cagedmind0531
ok, are you cool with them sending Siren to test it?
forrestjones2010
yes
cagedmind0531
The Gaia tree has like maximum security. It's a living relic
Picture Jesus's tomb with Jesus still in it alive somehow
forrestjones2010
nice
cagedmind0531
That's how prized it would be
forrestjones2010
k
cagedmind0531
Are you going to have Peyton there? or should your other piece intro him later?
forrestjones2010
sorry where?
cagedmind0531
beginning of chapter 7
forrestjones2010
Peyton is a chick and yes she will be there
head of surgery
cagedmind0531
k
and technically she is a computer so there!
forrestjones2010
right
she is a whore to
too
cagedmind0531
lol
forrestjones2010
she likes to give it up to strassman and feiny
like government cheese
cagedmind0531
rofl
Ok so then what
forrestjones2010
how does Gaia come back to life
cagedmind0531
She doesn't
She be dead
and is a tree
forrestjones2010
i thought graven visited her as a spirit somewhere
cagedmind0531
Oh we discussed them being able to talk through the star on their chest. We can add that or not
Either way
forrestjones2010
peyton puts her and Sepal into Hunab Ku after she finds out they are useless to her agenda
cagedmind0531
Hunab Ku?
forrestjones2010
Hunab Ku is a vault full of weapons in the middle of the spinning mega black hole at the center of the Milky Way
cagedmind0531
That sounds a bit out there sir
forrestjones2010
its Peytons hiding place for important weapons and paperwork
it will be our little secret jason
cagedmind0531
rofl
forrestjones2010
remember "the nerd copy"
cagedmind0531
lol ok
Ok so then...
The experiment fails. He dumps the bodies.
forrestjones2010
yes
cagedmind0531
Then he discusses what they can do now and arrive at the idea of abducting the child
Siren disagrees and almost refuses flat out to do it
But they force her to somehow
forrestjones2010
good
she does so with relative ease
i need to get some shut eye
cagedmind0531
alrighty man
night
forrestjones2010
awesome work today
really awesome
cagedmind0531
Yeah we both did some great work
The coral idea really ties everything together really well